VIDEO: Eboni K. Williams Interviews Jenn and Afeni on FBI Surveilling Aretha Franklin for Decades
Questions remain unanswered...
Eboni K. Williams (TheGrio, Real Housewives of New York, Revolt TV) interviews Courage News' Jenn Dize and activist Afeni Evans on their Rolling Stone story about decades of FBI surveillance on Aretha Franklin. Clip via TheGrio.tv.
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Transcript:
Aretha Franklin:
Now, you know.
It wouldn't be right if I came and left and just didn't sing a little bit of this. Okay? Let me hear that again, Teddy!
I think you guys know what this is.
Let me hear that one more time.
[Aretha Franklin sings]
Hit it one more time!
[Aretha Franklin sings Chain of Fools]
Eboni K. Williams:
That's the Queen of Soul, Aretha Franklin, performing her hit song "Chain of Fools" back at the Kennedy Center back in 2009.
Now, this was during the Freedom Celebration in honor of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
Now, did you know that the FBI keep a file on the legendary singer for decades because of her activism during the civil rights era.
Even suggesting that she was linked to extremist groups.
Now, that's all according to a recently declassified document.
Joining me now to talk about it are Jenn Dize, founder of Courage News and Afeni Evans, who's a writer and activist.
Now, Jenn, you requested this file from the FBI years ago under the Freedom of Information Act.
I want to ask why you thought it took so long for you to get it and why you pursued the information in the first place.
Jenn Dize:
Yes, so I requested this file – Aretha Franklin's file – back in 2018.
I did not receive it until September 7th of this year.
So, it took four long years.
I requested her file as part of reporting that I've done on COINTELPRO –
the governmental agency's mistreatment and harassment and abuse of prominent people in the civil rights movement.
Of prominent Black leaders and celebrities.
And so as part of requesting several files, I requested Aretha Franklin's.
And I ... it often takes a while but this was really quite some time – four years.
Eboni K. Williams:
Indeed, yeah, four years is a long time.
And also, Jenn, once you finally got the file, what really stood out to you?
Jenn Dize:
What stood out was that it was so clear Aretha Franklin was doing nothing wrong.
They never found anything that she was doing wrong.
Yet, peppered, sprinkled, covered throughout these files were terms like racial extremist, racial violence.
They were often talking about – they were really after communism (socialism) at this time as well.
And so, strangely, those things would be in there as well.
With the emphasis really on trying to link her to so-called racial or Black extremism.
And in very, very racist ways.
Eboni K. Williams:
Yeah. And unfortunately, Afeni, you know, we have seen this play before, it's giving Paul Robeson vibes, honestly.
When you look at the file and you see the efforts to connect Aretha Franklin's quest for civil rights and justice on behalf of her community,
and you see the FBI trying to link it to radical groups, communist groups, things like that, what's your reaction?
And do you think Aretha knew she was being monitored?
Afeni Evans:
I do think that she was aware of the surveillance just because that's kind of the point of FBI surveillance,
is to be covert enough for them not to be outwardly caught for it, but for you to.
She would still have to deal with the psychological effects of knowing that they are watching.
And that they are tracking you.
As far as what is in the files, and how they are trying to link her to radical groups,
I think that it is proven at this point that if you are a Black person who fighting for the civil rights and racial equity,
then that is a radical idea in America.
So, I don't think that she had to do much other than financially support these movements.
Other than financially support the structure of these movements.
To make sure that great leaders like Martin Luther King, like Angela Davis can still be the vital parts of the movement.
And, that's all she needed to do was to challenge power in that little way.
And to let all the people that are in power know that, as Black people, we are going to stick together as a community.
Even if it means influence that I gained from a talent as a Black woman.
She would say that her money came from the Black community.
So, she's going to use it to support the Black community.
Eboni K. Williams:
Yep. And we love to hear it, we love to hear it!
Jenn, the file also revealed that, and this is a typical FBI tactic, that they will also bring the family into it.
Aretha and her family themselves were on hit lists.
Just, in conclusion, what's your takeaway reaction, Jenn, of this realization?
Jenn Dize:
You know, it's really disturbing to me that in the later years, especially the early aughts,
the files continued, but they kind of shifted away from overt racism and more into,
"well, Aretha Franklin is receiving these threats," but in one case in particular, it really raises red flags
because it seems like the FBI did not do everything it could to protect her.
She received a death threat letter that also threatened her family.
And the FBI declined to fingerprint that letter.
And then the SDNY declined to prosecute.
And, while a lot of that particular file is redacted, it seems that they did know, essentially who did this.
Oh, I'm sure they did, I'm sure they did.
The question to me is, did the FBI purposefully not protect Aretha Franklin and other Black leaders.
Right.
I think we can guess the answer.
I was going to say, we can copy and paste that play today, unfortunately.
Jenn, Afeni, thank you both so much for your journalism and your research and your commentary here.
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HUGE NEWS! I’m working on something REALLY REALLY big and want you to be the first to know. Paid subscribers get the behind-the-scenes and what I’m working on right now:
Here’s the scoop:
First, thank you SO MUCH for being a paid subscriber. You’re the only reason I can break the stories I do.
Because of my journalism, I’ve been tapped to produce a docuseries that will cover the FBI’s surveillance of Aretha Franklin for decades (there’s a LOT more to this story…) as well as other topics.
I am not announcing this publicly right now but it is with a company that has several successful, important series and docs.
I’ll be sharing more as time goes on, but I wanted you to be the first to know!
<3 Jenn
Love you all!